May 17, 2023Liked by Monica Leonelle, Russell Nohelty
Wow, this is so timely. I was discussing this topic today with a fellow writer, how everything we've been taught about mailing lists and funnels just doesn't work for us and feels icky. I've come to understand that there are many ways to reach people but finding a way that fits who I am and not working unethically is really important to ensure its sustainable. I'm off to do the quiz. Thanks for this 🙌
I love this so much and it’s what I’ve been thinking a lot about for a while now. I’ve just moved most of my back catalogue back to wide after a few years of KU and in that process I stumbled across the understanding that in fact I’m better suited to wide. I made a lot of money in KU and still do but marketing wise I don’t wanna have to do alllllll the things I had to do for that KU money. Im a Forrest and have a large super invested and engaged community and I realised I just needed to double down on that because that’s what I adore going. And it fuels my creativity. And lol you’re spot on about Forrests thinking they’re other ecosystems 🤣
I loved reading this whole thing - super insightful! I especially agreed with the desert author insights. I talk to sooooo many authors who are frustrated bc they aren’t deserts, but they’re in a KU-centric, desert-heavy author world where they’re being told to write fast and hit trends, and they just...can’t. They think they’re broken or wrong for that, and of course, they’re not.
Yay! I'm so excited. Hopefully this can help people visualize it. We tried to tie the actions to the ecosystem, too so that people can see "oh, I'm a forest, which means I have a big interconnected root system", or "I'm a tundra and they are only fertile in seasons". I glad you got something out of it. We'll have a lot more too hopefully next week :)
Yes. KU is mostly deserts. But many deserts want to go wide now, or partially wide, and I think it's usually when the KU money starts to dry on a series or pen name.
Great post! This encapsulates a lot of what I have been feeling lately. For example, I've been trying to get ONE entry in a giveaway on my Substack for months (all you have to do to enter is leave a comment about what comic you're reading) and no one feels compelled to answer.
Your post also speaks to some of the things that Jami and Sarah talked about in a recent episode of Wish I'd Known Then, where they talk about Becca Syme's new rules of publishing and how to tailor your newsletter based on what type of author you are (https://wishidknownforwriters.com/160-2/).
I love their podcast, and I've been talking about Becca's archetype system since I heard it at RAM and then 20books. IDK if you saw it, but here it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9rIrW0sKXQ
Monica and I used it for months, but we couldn't figure out how to classify what we were seeing using it, specifically Evergreens. On top of that, we saw a subsection of our students failing at launching their campaigns and we wanted to know why, which led us down several rabbit holes that ended with our archetypes.
Nothing against Becca's. We LOOOVE her system, but this one just worked better for what we were seeing, and allowed us to classify people in a way with couldn't with hers.
I think they are systems with different purposes too, that are complimentary.
Ours is focused on sales, marketing, audience building, and really, finding a business model that's right for your personality. (And dropping all the business-y stuff you're doing that doesn't fit your personality.)
The ecosystems are great. Your test (I took it before reading your descriptions of the systems) says that I am a tundra. After reading all of the descriptions I have to admit that this tundra has a huge forest growing in it. 😆 Guess I am a Taiga - a forest tundra.
It's possible you are a tundra. We are also trying to improve the test, so if you feel you are a forest, then that is likely true right now. Do you think your superpower is interconnectivity or excitement? Also, when the chips are down, would you say you fall back on your community and try to help people/make it stronger, or try to put together a launch?
I think what put me into the tundra category was the question where I took answer A „I want to hide completely behind my work“ (paraphrasing it) as I am more of an introvert. Furthermore the last question about marketing strategies was hard to answer for me. None of the answers there felt right for me as I am still figuring out what works for me. And what I want to do.
As for my superpower - I guess I am figuring this one out as well. Networking/interconnectivity is probably not my stronger side as I do have troubles to ask people if they want to have flyers of my book at the store or approach them in general. I also shy away from reading sessions at bookstores.
All in all I feel most comfortable with a steady slow grow. I rather work on my stuff than interact with people. Not sure how this might work with a launch. I feel like you need an already big audience base to launch something.
You really have 5 options for your superpower; adaptabiilty/riding trends, focus/depth, excitement/launching, interconnectivity/connection, or vision/scope. Connectivity does not mean extraverted. It means connecting actoss projects to create a web for readers to find that is bound together by the way you view the world and your work.
You can also view this as what you do in stress/when the chips are down.
-Deserts will spot a trend in the market and ride it by producing some new work quickly to take advantage of it.
-Grasslands, like Hamilton, will write their way out by going deeper.
-Tundras will find a way to launch something and build some excitement.
-Aquatics will do something similar to tundras, but it will likely be a whole new product line.
-Forests will fall back on their community and try to find people to help to lift them up.
If you don't know which of those you are, then perhaps you need to put out more work and figure it out for yourself.
We are also putting out a new version of the quiz soon which will hopefully be much clearer and easier to take.
This link is an overview of each system, and then there are links to dive deeper on each one to see if one resonates with you more. http://authorecosystem.com/overview
Thank you for coming back at me and trying to help me out.
After some garden work and thinking about tundras and forests, rereading your post and sleeping everything over — I have not come up with a final conclusion.
Desert and aquatic are definitely not me. Writing far too slow (rapid release is my very personal writing nightmare), never spotting trends and not wanting to create a whole empire of a brand.
Writing wise I am more of a forest as I write whatever I want in whatever genre I like, not thinking about a target audience or trends or tropes or how to market — all the while hoping to drag enough readers along with me.
Marketing wise I am probably leaning more towards a tundra as I do keep my readers on track what I am writing and tease a new release beforehand with snippets and stuff. I am not doing huge launches, though, and I also tend to market older work a long while after it has been released.
In stressful times I bend my head down and write (without thinking about releases/launches whatsoever). So, grassland is probably showing up a bit, too.
I definitely need to put more thinking/work in it. So, thank you for the link! Going to read it.
I think I’m a forest! Although I don’t publish books (yet), just very personal Substack essays about infertility, mental health, and adventure. I write about whatever is present for me in the moment. I’m not at all trying to follow trends or gain SEO. My readers follow me because they’re invested in my story and perhaps see a part of themselves or someone they know in my words.
awesome! That it great! We'll be coming out with some more direction on each one hopefully in the next couple of weeks. Since the main problem with a forest is thinking they are another ecosystem, if you think you're a forest then that's probably right. Now, you need to work on just building your voice and interconnectivity between your work, so they people have to read everything you write :)
Reading the post, my first thought was, "I sound a lot like an unhealthy grassland."
And then I took the quiz, and got called tf out. Apparently, I am an unhealthy forest (well, I guess I was half right! 😅) with this insight:
"The biggest problem with forests is they always think they are some other ecosystem.
Forests also really like digging deep into their own nerdy interests so they think they are grasslands, but when they try to share their interests nobody cares outside their own community."
Call 911. There's been a murder.
Now I need to figure out what to do with this, because, "forests must be consistent, hard-working, and patient, as it takes time, energy, and money to stand up each of their trees." The strengths I need to work to my strengths are the things that are actually my weaknesses (especially the patience and consistency part 😭)
Second--I think you are right, you are a Forest. (Possibly a Grassland... Though normally they have a lot of books quickly. But that may be because you have a full time job.)
Anyway, for this comment, I'll assume you are a Forest. And the best thing you can do is recognize that your personality is what excites people about your work. YOUR take on things. They don't want any old dragon book, they want Ash's dragon books. They want Ash's take on AI.
What we see be most successful: Forests tend to keep exploring their interests, but they also find an interest that is "popular" enough to gain critical mass. That tends to be their "job" and they totally love it, and it supports all the other stuff. They keep watering everything else also.
About consistency... We are not sure of that one, tbh, but Forests definitely tend to LOOK consistent on the outside. What I think is more pertinent to their success is their tendency to skill stack. They keep getting better at everything and keep leveling up, and it's very fast. And I think that's ABSOLUTELY you. On the fiction side, and with your new endeavors in AI.
May 17, 2023Liked by Monica Leonelle, Russell Nohelty
NGL, I think it's hilarious that I am an Ash forest 😂
My day job has always been an issue. Because it's not just a full time job, it's nearly 2 full time jobs, with the equivalent of seven 40 hour weeks worked in April.
The promise of the potential was how I got interested in AI in the first place, because writing the book was never the part that excited me. That has always been telling the story. They get conflated, but you know how different they truly are. I've always said that that it should be enough to just think of the story and it should spring forth fully formed like Athena from the mind of Zeus
I suppose there is a good way to settle this, because I am nothing if not consistent across the personality tests. Which ecosystem would you believe that an INFP, Enneagram 9, Pisces with top 5 strengths of Empathy, Learner, Includer, Stratergic, and Harmony would belong to?
We're going to have more on each ecosystem next week, but 9s are very interested in harmony, and having Empathy and Includer and Harmony in your top 5 definitely screams Forest to me.
I took the test before reading, too. The test thinks that I am a tundra. But, after reading I think I am a forest. I call myself a taiga now - forest tundra. 😂
Wow, this is so timely. I was discussing this topic today with a fellow writer, how everything we've been taught about mailing lists and funnels just doesn't work for us and feels icky. I've come to understand that there are many ways to reach people but finding a way that fits who I am and not working unethically is really important to ensure its sustainable. I'm off to do the quiz. Thanks for this 🙌
yay! You're welcome. I hope it helps. I am very into sustainable marketing.
I got Forest 🌲🌲 thanks
I love this so much and it’s what I’ve been thinking a lot about for a while now. I’ve just moved most of my back catalogue back to wide after a few years of KU and in that process I stumbled across the understanding that in fact I’m better suited to wide. I made a lot of money in KU and still do but marketing wise I don’t wanna have to do alllllll the things I had to do for that KU money. Im a Forrest and have a large super invested and engaged community and I realised I just needed to double down on that because that’s what I adore going. And it fuels my creativity. And lol you’re spot on about Forrests thinking they’re other ecosystems 🤣
Yay!! I love all of this and can’t wait to see you double down moving forward :)
I loved reading this whole thing - super insightful! I especially agreed with the desert author insights. I talk to sooooo many authors who are frustrated bc they aren’t deserts, but they’re in a KU-centric, desert-heavy author world where they’re being told to write fast and hit trends, and they just...can’t. They think they’re broken or wrong for that, and of course, they’re not.
Thanks for the insights!
Yay! I'm so excited. Hopefully this can help people visualize it. We tried to tie the actions to the ecosystem, too so that people can see "oh, I'm a forest, which means I have a big interconnected root system", or "I'm a tundra and they are only fertile in seasons". I glad you got something out of it. We'll have a lot more too hopefully next week :)
Yes. KU is mostly deserts. But many deserts want to go wide now, or partially wide, and I think it's usually when the KU money starts to dry on a series or pen name.
Very cool.
A few years ago, I began talking about artists creating ecosystems for their audience so it's interesting to see the concept fleshed out here!
Awesome! I have been talking about it for a long time too and I'm super excited Monica sat me down to actually flesh this out with her b/c I love it.
Great post! This encapsulates a lot of what I have been feeling lately. For example, I've been trying to get ONE entry in a giveaway on my Substack for months (all you have to do to enter is leave a comment about what comic you're reading) and no one feels compelled to answer.
Your post also speaks to some of the things that Jami and Sarah talked about in a recent episode of Wish I'd Known Then, where they talk about Becca Syme's new rules of publishing and how to tailor your newsletter based on what type of author you are (https://wishidknownforwriters.com/160-2/).
I love their podcast, and I've been talking about Becca's archetype system since I heard it at RAM and then 20books. IDK if you saw it, but here it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9rIrW0sKXQ
Monica and I used it for months, but we couldn't figure out how to classify what we were seeing using it, specifically Evergreens. On top of that, we saw a subsection of our students failing at launching their campaigns and we wanted to know why, which led us down several rabbit holes that ended with our archetypes.
Nothing against Becca's. We LOOOVE her system, but this one just worked better for what we were seeing, and allowed us to classify people in a way with couldn't with hers.
I think they are systems with different purposes too, that are complimentary.
Ours is focused on sales, marketing, audience building, and really, finding a business model that's right for your personality. (And dropping all the business-y stuff you're doing that doesn't fit your personality.)
I haven't watched her talk yet, but will definitely check it out.
I like that the indie author community compliments and feeds off of each other with new ideas and ways of looking at things.
The ecosystems are great. Your test (I took it before reading your descriptions of the systems) says that I am a tundra. After reading all of the descriptions I have to admit that this tundra has a huge forest growing in it. 😆 Guess I am a Taiga - a forest tundra.
It's possible you are a tundra. We are also trying to improve the test, so if you feel you are a forest, then that is likely true right now. Do you think your superpower is interconnectivity or excitement? Also, when the chips are down, would you say you fall back on your community and try to help people/make it stronger, or try to put together a launch?
I think what put me into the tundra category was the question where I took answer A „I want to hide completely behind my work“ (paraphrasing it) as I am more of an introvert. Furthermore the last question about marketing strategies was hard to answer for me. None of the answers there felt right for me as I am still figuring out what works for me. And what I want to do.
As for my superpower - I guess I am figuring this one out as well. Networking/interconnectivity is probably not my stronger side as I do have troubles to ask people if they want to have flyers of my book at the store or approach them in general. I also shy away from reading sessions at bookstores.
All in all I feel most comfortable with a steady slow grow. I rather work on my stuff than interact with people. Not sure how this might work with a launch. I feel like you need an already big audience base to launch something.
You really have 5 options for your superpower; adaptabiilty/riding trends, focus/depth, excitement/launching, interconnectivity/connection, or vision/scope. Connectivity does not mean extraverted. It means connecting actoss projects to create a web for readers to find that is bound together by the way you view the world and your work.
You can also view this as what you do in stress/when the chips are down.
-Deserts will spot a trend in the market and ride it by producing some new work quickly to take advantage of it.
-Grasslands, like Hamilton, will write their way out by going deeper.
-Tundras will find a way to launch something and build some excitement.
-Aquatics will do something similar to tundras, but it will likely be a whole new product line.
-Forests will fall back on their community and try to find people to help to lift them up.
If you don't know which of those you are, then perhaps you need to put out more work and figure it out for yourself.
We are also putting out a new version of the quiz soon which will hopefully be much clearer and easier to take.
This link is an overview of each system, and then there are links to dive deeper on each one to see if one resonates with you more. http://authorecosystem.com/overview
Thank you for coming back at me and trying to help me out.
After some garden work and thinking about tundras and forests, rereading your post and sleeping everything over — I have not come up with a final conclusion.
Desert and aquatic are definitely not me. Writing far too slow (rapid release is my very personal writing nightmare), never spotting trends and not wanting to create a whole empire of a brand.
Writing wise I am more of a forest as I write whatever I want in whatever genre I like, not thinking about a target audience or trends or tropes or how to market — all the while hoping to drag enough readers along with me.
Marketing wise I am probably leaning more towards a tundra as I do keep my readers on track what I am writing and tease a new release beforehand with snippets and stuff. I am not doing huge launches, though, and I also tend to market older work a long while after it has been released.
In stressful times I bend my head down and write (without thinking about releases/launches whatsoever). So, grassland is probably showing up a bit, too.
I definitely need to put more thinking/work in it. So, thank you for the link! Going to read it.
Makes sense. I am a tundra with strong forest tendencies.
I think I’m a forest! Although I don’t publish books (yet), just very personal Substack essays about infertility, mental health, and adventure. I write about whatever is present for me in the moment. I’m not at all trying to follow trends or gain SEO. My readers follow me because they’re invested in my story and perhaps see a part of themselves or someone they know in my words.
awesome! That it great! We'll be coming out with some more direction on each one hopefully in the next couple of weeks. Since the main problem with a forest is thinking they are another ecosystem, if you think you're a forest then that's probably right. Now, you need to work on just building your voice and interconnectivity between your work, so they people have to read everything you write :)
Reading the post, my first thought was, "I sound a lot like an unhealthy grassland."
And then I took the quiz, and got called tf out. Apparently, I am an unhealthy forest (well, I guess I was half right! 😅) with this insight:
"The biggest problem with forests is they always think they are some other ecosystem.
Forests also really like digging deep into their own nerdy interests so they think they are grasslands, but when they try to share their interests nobody cares outside their own community."
Call 911. There's been a murder.
Now I need to figure out what to do with this, because, "forests must be consistent, hard-working, and patient, as it takes time, energy, and money to stand up each of their trees." The strengths I need to work to my strengths are the things that are actually my weaknesses (especially the patience and consistency part 😭)
First--dying, your murder comment is so funny 🤣
Second--I think you are right, you are a Forest. (Possibly a Grassland... Though normally they have a lot of books quickly. But that may be because you have a full time job.)
Anyway, for this comment, I'll assume you are a Forest. And the best thing you can do is recognize that your personality is what excites people about your work. YOUR take on things. They don't want any old dragon book, they want Ash's dragon books. They want Ash's take on AI.
What we see be most successful: Forests tend to keep exploring their interests, but they also find an interest that is "popular" enough to gain critical mass. That tends to be their "job" and they totally love it, and it supports all the other stuff. They keep watering everything else also.
About consistency... We are not sure of that one, tbh, but Forests definitely tend to LOOK consistent on the outside. What I think is more pertinent to their success is their tendency to skill stack. They keep getting better at everything and keep leveling up, and it's very fast. And I think that's ABSOLUTELY you. On the fiction side, and with your new endeavors in AI.
NGL, I think it's hilarious that I am an Ash forest 😂
My day job has always been an issue. Because it's not just a full time job, it's nearly 2 full time jobs, with the equivalent of seven 40 hour weeks worked in April.
The promise of the potential was how I got interested in AI in the first place, because writing the book was never the part that excited me. That has always been telling the story. They get conflated, but you know how different they truly are. I've always said that that it should be enough to just think of the story and it should spring forth fully formed like Athena from the mind of Zeus
see, now that makes me think you're an aquatic. :)
So I'm a submerged, grassy forest 😂
I suppose there is a good way to settle this, because I am nothing if not consistent across the personality tests. Which ecosystem would you believe that an INFP, Enneagram 9, Pisces with top 5 strengths of Empathy, Learner, Includer, Stratergic, and Harmony would belong to?
We're going to have more on each ecosystem next week, but 9s are very interested in harmony, and having Empathy and Includer and Harmony in your top 5 definitely screams Forest to me.
Like I said, I'm nothing if not consistent across personality tests. There is my consistency. It's just applied to the wrong facet of my life lol
I took the test before reading, too. The test thinks that I am a tundra. But, after reading I think I am a forest. I call myself a taiga now - forest tundra. 😂